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Offline perop

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« Odgovori #135 u: 16. 04. 2021. 09:13:45 »
Ne znam da li je netko čitao o španjolcu Sanchezu koji je radio uAfrici za poduzeće koje je gradilo pruge!?
U mirovinu je otišao sa 2000 odstreljenih bivola,120 lavova,80 slonova... Ostala odstreljena divljač brojila se u hiljadama!

Teško dostižno je ono šta sam napisao a to je 2000 bivola,120 lavova i 80 slonova...
Ako znate da je to netko uspio napraviti slobodno napišite. A šta se tiće ostalog dovoljno je imati novaca i crnčići u Africi će napraviti baš sve da taj novac završi na njihovom računu!

Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell (8 September 1880 – 30 June 1954), known as Karamojo Bell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._D._M._Bell

Bell shot 1,011[15] elephants during his career;


« Zadnja izmjena: 16. 04. 2021. 09:17:58 od perop »

Offline roger

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« Odgovori #136 u: 16. 04. 2021. 10:16:11 »
John Pondoro Taylor
Having hunted over thirty years on the African continent, Taylor killed over 1,000 elephants, many of these illegally

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_%22Pondoro%22_Taylor

Za profi lovca, stare generacije nije neobicno odstreliti preko 1000 slonova, u karijeri.
Medjutim danas znamo uglavnom za one koji su ostavljali svoje biljeske za sobom, i koje je konacno uocila javnost, odnosno koje su i danas poznate. Mnogi su se provukli nepoznati i ostali u zaboravu. Kolonizacija paralaelno i safari desavao se u svim zemljama, a za francuske lovce, na primjer, malo znamo.

Zaniljivo je da su Taylor i Bell, nosioci dvije suprotne teorije lova.
Bell, skot, (znamo o skotskoj poslovicnoj skrtosti), smatrao je da je za slona dovoljan uobicajeni vojni kalibar i FMJ metak, koristio je sve tadasnje vojne kalibre, na pr 303 enfield, ali i najvise 7x57 mauser. Iz jeftinijih sportskih ili vojnih pusaka.
Vojni FMJ metak je daleko jeftiniji od bilo kojeg sportskog i lovackog kalibra. Kako onda tako i danas
Bell je zaokruzio svoju lovnu karijeru povlacenjem na svoje imanje u skotskoj. Kao dobrostojeci i cijenjeni gospodin.
Bella danas citiraju svi oni koji ne zele koristiti velike kalibre, odnosno oni koji preferiraju manje kalibre. Medjutim, osim Bella, malo kog drugog se za efektivnost malog kalibra i moze citirati.

John Pondoro Taylor,
Nosioc je suprotne teorije lovne balistike.
Irac, vjerojatno i manje skrt od skota -Bella. Investirao je sve novce u najbolje puske onoga doba, i prihvatio teoriju jakog, teskog i sporog kalibra za lov debelokozaca. Nabavljao je i koristio puske enlgeskih firmi, koje su i onda kao i danas kostale ko jedna nekretnina. Kompletan set pusaka, po nekoliko dakle, koje bi ukljucivale karabine, i expresice, gubio je najmanje tri puta.
Prvi put kad se vratio iz vojske nakon drugog svjetskog rata, usatnovio je da su mu puske pokradene, Narucio je nove u Engleskoj (i dok je cekao da ih naprave i isporuce, napisao je knjigu "African rifles and cartridges")
Nakon tog je  jos dva puta gubio po cijelu bateriju pusaka, jer mu se camac dva puta prevrtao kod prelaska rijeke pune krokodila ili nilskih konja gdje ih nije bilo moguce izvaditi. Svaki put je narucivao nove.

On je zavrsio karijeru, u neimastini, za razliku od Bella (koji je stedio na metku i puski).

Obzirom da je koristio cesto sve tipove i kalibre pusaka svog doba, na tisuce grla divljaci svih vrsta i velicina, dosao je do teorije o taylor knock out value, dakle, o shokirajucem efektu na divljac, u ovisnosti o kalibru, masi zrna itd...

medjutim, danasnja lovna indutrija, i dobra lovna praksa, ali i lokalna pravila lova i izbora kalibra, od ove dvojice znamentiinih lovaca, daje za pravu Pondoro tayloru, za koristenje teskih i sporijih kalibara, za odstrel debelokozaca. Bellove teoriji manjeg brzog kalibra, sud povijesti i moderna praksa nakon 100 godina, nisu prihvatili. bell ostaje fenomen ali i individualaca fantasticne primjene kalibra na nivou 7mm, na osnovu vlastite vjestine preciznog pogotka i poznavanja anatonije divljaci

Evo ih obadva, na prvoj slici, gornji red, iz moje kolekcije:
1 "The wanderings of Elephant Hunter", WDM Bell
2. "African rifles and Cartridges", John Pondoro Taylor - inace, kako kolektivno iskutsvo lova na debelokosce danas je sve manje, ovo je, mogu reci, najcitiranija knjiga na svijetu o africkim kalibrima, premda i pise od najmanjih pa na gore. Njega cesto citira i wikipedija, ali i modeni autori.


Gente Balcanico!

Offline Pinia

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« Odgovori #137 u: 16. 04. 2021. 10:44:54 »
Jako interesantno!  Morat ću se učlanit u tvoju biblioteku d4
Rule number 1: Fuck what they think.

Offline roger

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« Odgovori #138 u: 16. 04. 2021. 10:47:43 »
Morat cu smislit adekvatnu clanarinu za takve.  z11
Gente Balcanico!

Offline perop

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« Odgovori #139 u: 16. 04. 2021. 10:51:57 »
John Pondoro Taylor
Having hunted over thirty years on the African continent, Taylor killed over 1,000 elephants, many of these illegally

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_%22Pondoro%22_Taylor


Zaniljivo je da su Taylor i Bell, nosioci dvije suprotne teorije lova.
Bell, skot, (znamo o skotskoj poslovicnoj skrtosti), smatrao je da je za slona dovoljan uobicajeni vojni kalibar i FMJ metak, koristio je sve tadasnje vojne kalibre, na pr 303 enfield, ali i najvise 7x57 mauser. Iz jeftinijih sportskih ili vojnih pusaka.
Vojni FMJ metak je daleko jeftiniji od bilo kojeg sportskog i lovackog kalibra. Kako onda tako i danas
Bell je zaokruzio svoju lovnu karijeru povlacenjem na svoje imanje u skotskoj. Kao dobrostojeci i cijenjeni gospodin.
Bella danas citiraju svi oni koji ne zele koristiti velike kalibre, odnosno oni koji preferiraju manje kalibre. Medjutim, osim Bella, malo kog drugog se za efektivnost malog kalibra i moze citirati.

Bellove teoriji manjeg brzog kalibra, sud povijesti i moderna praksa nakon 100 godina, nisu prihvatili. bell ostaje fenomen ali i individualaca fantasticne primjene kalibra na nivou 7mm, na osnovu vlastite vjestine preciznog pogotka i poznavanja anatonije divljaci

teaa d7
Ako ovo jnije dokaz da manji kalibri mogu biti efikasni u lovu na "krupnu divljač"ne znam što bi drugo moglo biti. Uskoro će srnjaci a tamo se često susrećem u mojim lovovima s cal. 8x68, 300 Win. mag, 300 Short mag itd. Nemam ništa protiv tih kalibara i nije mi namjera da polemiziram o njima. takvih stranica ima na ovom Forumu na stotine. "Tko što voli neka izvoli!"           

Karamojo Bella su potisnuli u zaborav proizvođači oružja i poplava magnum kalibara u svijetu. Bell je bio i ostao živi svjedok i dokaz da je u lovu najbitniji kvalitetno plasiran pogodak. "Snažan kalibar" tu može nešto malo popraviti ali ne puno toga.
 
d7 z10
Walter Bell 7x57
Walter D.M. Bell has become a legend among elephant hunters due to his great success in the ivory trade during the golden age of hunting in East Africa. He is known as “Karamojo” Bell because of his safaris through this remote wilderness area in North Eastern Uganda. He is famous for perfecting the brain shot on elephants, dissecting their skulls and making a careful study of the anatomy of the skull so he could predict paths of bullet travel from a shot at any angle in order to reach the brain. Using mostly 6.5mm and 7mm caliber rifles, he was an advocate of shot placement over big bore power for killing efficiently.

Modern writers on the internet and in magazine articles have tended to refer to him and his tally of elephants in this vein, “He shot most of his 1000 elephants with a 7x57mm rifle” or words to that effect. In fact, Walter Bell killed 1011 elephants with a 7x57 in the course of his career. Since most people refer to him for his small caliber prowess and his elephant tally I thought I would try and break it down, because there are a great number of people quoting what “Karamojo Bell” did or didn’t do and I have noted a common tendency in the last few years to play down what he did with small caliber rifles. Perhaps this is in direct relation to the resurgence in popularity of magnums and the larger safari rifles. Craig Boddington is quite apt to mention the "few hundred elephants" that Bell took. (Mr. Boddington, I believe, is an erstwhile heavy rifle enthusiast.)

Bell recorded all of his kills and shots fired. It was a business to him, not pleasure, and he needed to record expenditures.

He shot exactly 1,011 elephants with a series of six Rigby-made 7x57mm (.275 Rigby) rifles with 173 grain military ammo.
He shot 300 elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine using the long 159 grain FMJ bullets.
He shot 200 odd with the .303 and the 215 grain army bullet.
He went to a .318 Westley Richards for a while, which is a cartridge firing a 250 grain bullet at about 2400 fps, but found the ammunition unreliable and returned to the 7mm.
He also recorded that one of the reasons why he favored the 7x57 was that the ammunition was more reliable and he could not recall ever having a fault with it. Whereas British sporting ammunition, apart from the .303 military ammo, gave him endless trouble with splitting cases.
The balance of his elephants were shot with this .318 and his .450/400 Jeffrey double rifle.
He wrote about being able to drop an elephant with a light caliber rifle if he shot it in the same place that he would have shot it with a heavy rifle.
It was unmentioned, but understood, that 7x57 ammunition cost a tenth the price of large caliber .450/400 Jeffrey cartridges and money is always a factor in business.
Just out of interest, I will mention that to judge ammunition expenditure and his own shooting, he calculated an average. He discovered that with the .275 (7x57mm) he fired an average of 1.5 shots per kill. This means that half the time he only needed one shot. That is a fair performance for such a large number of elephants killed and considering that it is common today to fire an insurance shot, anyway.

It is also interesting to note that, although Bell is the most famous proponent of using small caliber "nitro" rifles for large game, he did not discover the technique, nor was he its earliest advocate. Well known hunter Arthur Neumann, for example, had been shooting elephants with a .303 Lee Metford rifle for years before Walter Bell got into the business.

WDM Bell is forever associated with the John Rigby & Sons Mauser rifle and the .275 Rigby cartridge. ".275 Rigby" was the British designation for the German 7x57mm Mauser cartridge. This cartridge propelled a .284 caliber, 173 grain bullet at around 2300 fps and the bullets he used for elephant brain shots were full metal jacketed solids. He declared once that a soft point bullet had never sullied the bore of his rifle. It is interesting to compare these ballistics with what is commonly regarded as essential performance today.

The Rigby Mauser was just that, a Mauser action rifle in sporting configuration, half stocked and finely finished. The actions were made by the Mauser Company in Germany and Rigby had the rights to sell them in England. The Mauser action was the darling of the sporting world at the time and Bell was obviously a man who appreciated fine rifles; he bought the best. For most of his life, he was an advocate of the bead front blade and express rear sights. However, in later years he used an aperture sight as well as early telescopic sights. His last .275 Rigby rifle was sold by his widow (after his death in 1951) to the writer Robert Ruark, who later presented it to Mark Selby, son of the famous white hunter Harry Selby. A constellation of famous African names converged around the ownership of this rifle. Interestingly, it is a half stock, take down rifle with early telescopic sights and a trap made out of the grip cap to store cleaning gear.

Shot placement for the tricky brain shot on elephants required good marksmanship. Bell constantly practiced by dry-firing his rifle. He always carried his own rifle, eschewing gun bearers (another plus for the lightweight Mauser), and picked pretend targets of opportunity as he traveled, dry firing at a distant rock or bird. He believed that this was the single practice most beneficial to a hunter.

He was a great proponent of the bead foresight and it was his drawings, with which he illustrated his first book Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter, that explained to me how to use a bead front sight properly. You should hold the bead low in the notch so that your elevation is constant and open both eyes so that you can see through your hand and rifle with your non-shooting eye.

As a further example of marksmanship (if brain shooting a great many elephants isn’t enough), Bell used up the remainder of his unwanted .318 ammunition by shooting flying birds over an African lake. Spectators believed that he was using a shotgun and were amazed to find that he was actually using a rifle.

I will make the point that unlike many African writers (Peter Capstick jumps to mind), “Karamojo” Bell doesn’t seem to have been particularly threatened by an elephant, rogue or otherwise. Nor did he have to “turn a charge” or anything like that. The prose in his books has none of the trumpeting about the manly virtues of facing grisly death upon which Capstick built his writing career and that has been popular ever since Hemingway went on a couple of hunting trips. (Hemingway was disappointed when he shot a lion and it just died, and that’s all.)

A great many people have tried to explain away Bell’s elephant hunting success by asserting that he didn’t need to hunt in thick cover and could shoot elephants from long range, the implication being that somehow the behavior of African elephants must have been different back then. This is untrue, as any reader of his books will find. Mr. Bell hunted hard, walked thousands of miles, ran down elephants and was a very cool marksman at close range.

One does not walk down an elephant in uncharted African wilderness with a tool one regards as marginal and Bell had complete confidence in his ability to harvest elephants with the Rigby Mauser. It was his business and also his hide at stake, especially considering that the amount of money to be made was considerable. To put his efforts into perspective, he wrote of one day when he tracked and shot nine elephants. He estimated that he had earned 877 pounds sterling from the ivory harvested from those nine kills. After one expedition he returned with ivory worth over 23,000 pounds sterling. That was a vast sum of money and converted to today’s currency equivalent it would make your eyes water. One does not risk that kind of money and effort on a questionable caliber.

Walter Bell left Scotland a young adventurer obsessed with hunting, traveling to the North American Yukon territory to try to cash in on the gold rush and make his fortune. It did not pan out and he joined the Canadian forces sent to fight alongside the British in the Boer War in South Africa at the turn of the 20th Century. Taken prisoner at one point by the Boers, he later escaped. When the war was settled, he stayed on and bought his way into elephant hunting, outfitting his first safari on foot into East Africa. He later confessed that he had only joined the army in order to get to Africa.

Bell made himself into a successful elephant hunter not just because of his skill with a rifle, but also due to carefully maintained good relations with the local people in the territories through which he traveled. He was always ready with gifts for chiefs and kings; he bought hunting permission from them. One of his best ideas was to post a reward for any African who gave him information on the whereabouts of good elephants. He soon had a flood of elephant sightings coming in and he was as good as his word, readily paying for the information.

When the Great War (World War I) broke out, he became a pilot flying in Tanganyika (Tanzania). He was known for not flying with an observer, because the observer obstructed his view when he tried to shoot enemy planes down with his .450 elephant gun! He later served in Greece and Italy and was twice decorated.

After the War, Bell returned to ivory hunting, traveling by canoe into then uncharted African wilds after legendary herds of large elephants. He made his last expedition in the early 1920’s.

He retired to Scotland a wealthy man; there is no unhappy or overly dramatic ending to his story. He lived unscathed through all of his adventures to enjoy the wealth he had made with his rifle.

Except that, Mr. Bell was not your normal retired chap. He steps once more into history during World War II, sailing his yacht Trenchmare to the shores of Dunkirk in 1940 to help evacuate the besieged Allied forces from the beaches at the age of sixty.

Walter Bell spent his later years writing, practicing art and bird hunting on his Scottish estate. (One imagines with a fine "London best" double gun.) He created water color paintings and ink drawings of red stags in the Highland tussock as well as paintings of splendidly depicted elephants on the savannah, made with an eye for anatomical detail and an appreciation of the body language of the African elephant. He used them to illustrate his books.

He made it clear in his books what he would use if he returned to Africa. With a lifetime of elephant hunting behind him, he felt he could put his finger on the perfect caliber for the purpose. Strange as it may seem, it wasn’t his trusty 7mm Mauser. He seems to have matured and gone for a heavier rig. Any .30 caliber capable of sending a 250 grain bullet at about 2500 feet per second would do nicely as an elephant gun, thank you, old boy.
« Zadnja izmjena: 16. 04. 2021. 11:03:20 od perop »

Offline roger

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« Odgovori #140 u: 16. 04. 2021. 11:33:26 »
Problem je sta se onda, mozda kao i danas, o ranjavanju i posljedicama ranjavanja nije pisalo. Ranis 2, odstrelis 5, napises o ovih pet (ili ih se snimi za you tube), i legenda zivi dalje. ne kazem da je Bell to tako radio, ali mnogi sljedbenici manjeg kalibra za krupnu divljac, jesu.
A i promijenili su se uvjeti lova, do danas. Pod pritiskom lova, slon se sa ravnica gdje mu je lako prici i naciljati,  povukao u grmlje, u bush, i cist hitac s malim kalibrom vise nije relativno lagan, kao kad je slon na cistini. Kako je bilo na pocetku stoljeca. Zenke po grmljusu agresivne, muzjaci takodjer.
Nekloiko Bellovih crteza, kako je nekad bilo, u privitku. Zanimljiv je onaj lov u visokoj travi, sa svega par metara udaljenosti (slon stoji mirno, da se lovac moze popeti na trackera, ili skale koje ovaj pridrzava i pucati iza uha sa 7mm, a danas je ovo nezamislivo.
Konacno, lovna industrija je propisala sta je adekvatan lovni kalibar za odredjenu divljac. A propisi su doneseni na osnovu znanja profesionalca sa iskustvom na terenu, a to u ovom slucaju nije 7mm.
 
Evo jedna pricica o manjem kalibru, i ranjavanju, a  ova je evidentirana, a slicnih je bilo na stotine:

https://www.africanhuntinggazette.com/sir-charless-baby-110-years/
Few remember the King’s hunting tour of India, but many recall that other incident in 1911, when George Grey (brother of the British foreign secretary) wounded a lion with a .280 Ross, and was killed when the high-velocity bullets failed to stop its charge. Blaming the Ross for that failure is manifestly unfair. Dying in hospital in Nairobi, Grey stated frankly that it was his own fault for riding too close to the lion. He was hunting on a farm in the Aberdares, and the informal rules of hunting lions on horseback was, one, never to get too close, and two, never to shoot from less than 150 yards. Grey did both and paid the price, but the .280 Ross has been paying as well, from that day to this.

Gente Balcanico!

Offline zhrvoje

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« Odgovori #141 u: 16. 04. 2021. 12:01:50 »
Roger, super opis Bella i Taylora, samo bi komentirao jednu tvrdnju, kazes da je Bell bio zagovornik manjeg brzog kalibra, ja se ne slazem sa tim, nije bio zagovornik manjeg brzog nego samo manjeg. Taj 7x57 sa 175 grs zrnom nije isao preko 700m/s, a toliko su isli i vecina velikih kalibara koje je koristio Tayor. Ono sto je Bell usavrsio je poznavanje anatomije slona i zato je tako uspjesno koristio manje kalibre.
Stavi pravu stvar na pravo mjesto...i ucini to cesto....
Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnDcMjnFpvRMCtlVHqFqUVQ

Offline perop

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« Odgovori #142 u: 16. 04. 2021. 12:09:29 »
 teaa
roger,  d1
mislim da su slonovi isti i onda i danas. Danas su slonovi jako skup lov, zaštićeni su  i ima ih neuporedivo manje pa su i prilike za pucanje rjeđe. Kao što se vidi iz teksta kojeg sam dostavio zarade od slonovače u Bell-ovo doba bile su velike i nisu dozvoljavale gubitke. U tom poslu lako se propadalo i ostajalo bez prebijene pare s velikim dugovima. Posao lovca na slonove nije mogao svatko obavljati. To je bio unosan posao ali samo onima koji su to mogli i znali raditi. Bell je taj posao obavljao vrhunski, kao nitko prije ili poslije njega. Vjerojatno je još bilo puno velikih afričkih lovaca ali Bell ostaje ipak jedinstven. Ne vjerujem da ga je itko ikada stigao ili prestigao. Da je Bell mogao imati boju, sigurniju i precizniju pušku i kvalitetnije streljivo tog doba on bi ih sigurno kupio i s njima lovio.  Koliko god teži i snažniji kalibar u lovu daje određenu psihičku sigurnost, težina puške dovodi do toga da smanjuje preciznoct ciljanja, brzinu djelovanja i sl. O snažnom trzaju i zaziranju na pucanj, manama teških "afričkih" kalibara, koje često dovode do loše plasiranih pogodaka i ranjavanja divljači da i ne govorimo. Danas je propisano kako i gdje se mogu loviti slonovi i druga krupna afrička divljač te kojim kalibrima i streljivom ih je dozvoljeno loviti. Lov slonova s cal. 7x57 i FMJ je daleka prošlost. Rasprave i pitanja o cal. 7x57 i i učinkovitosti FMJ ostaju samo teme za stručne ili za forumaške rasprave. U afričkom lovu danas se zna što je moguće i što je dozvoljeno. Od toga svakako izuzimam afrički krivolov jer je tu sve dozvoljeno i sve je moguće.
 z10
« Zadnja izmjena: 16. 04. 2021. 12:25:04 od perop »

Offline trapavi

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« Odgovori #143 u: 16. 04. 2021. 13:21:06 »
Krivolovci pucaju iz kalašnjikova ili neke vojničke puške 7,62×51. Naravno da je tu komentar nepotreban , zna se što je krivolov od lova u zamke do kalašnjikova .
No bilo je i bit će da je pogodak u papak makar sa 458 win samo pogodak u papak i izgubljena divljač. Kako god su nekad ti čuveni lovci sa 7×57 ili 303 lovili slonove tako je moguće i svu evropsku divljač sa 22lr, samo ga treba stavit na pravo mjesto . Esad koliko ćeš lako doć u situaciju da je takav hitac moguć drugo je pitanje.

Offline roger

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« Odgovori #144 u: 16. 04. 2021. 13:22:48 »
Roger, super opis Bella i Taylora, samo bi komentirao jednu tvrdnju, kazes da je Bell bio zagovornik manjeg brzog kalibra, ja se ne slazem sa tim, nije bio zagovornik manjeg brzog nego samo manjeg. Taj 7x57 sa 175 grs zrnom nije isao preko 700m/s, a toliko su isli i vecina velikih kalibara koje je koristio Tayor. Ono sto je Bell usavrsio je poznavanje anatomije slona i zato je tako uspjesno koristio manje kalibre.
Stavi pravu stvar na pravo mjesto...i ucini to cesto....
Slazem se. 7x57
Gente Balcanico!

Offline roger

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« Odgovori #145 u: 16. 04. 2021. 13:36:25 »
Krivolovci pucaju iz kalašnjikova ili neke vojničke puške 7,62×51. Naravno da je tu komentar nepotreban , zna se što je krivolov od lova u zamke do kalašnjikova .
No bilo je i bit će da je pogodak u papak makar sa 458 win samo pogodak u papak i izgubljena divljač. Kako god su nekad ti čuveni lovci sa 7×57 ili 303 lovili slonove tako je moguće i svu evropsku divljač sa 22lr, samo ga treba stavit na pravo mjesto . Esad koliko ćeš lako doć u situaciju da je takav hitac moguć drugo je pitanje.

Stvar je u opisu aktivnosti, i koja se oprema koristi, pa s tim u vezi ide i pravilnik, i oprema i kako se koristi kod lovaca prema etickom pravilu, ili kod profi lovaca prema pravilu struke, ili zaduzenju sluzbe, a kod lokalnog stanovnista prema vjekovnoj tradiciji.:

Za sportski lov - klijent, karabin od 375 na gore, kojeg klijent zna koristiti da pogodi gdje cilja,  je zadovoljavajuci.

Za sportski lov - profi vodic, PH, puska od .40 na gore, preferabilno expresica. Kad i ako klijent zezne i rani, ovaj mora zaustavljati i spasavati situaciju.

Profi lovac, culling: sta god da dobije od poslodavca, od drzave dobro je. Jedno vrijeme to je bilo 458 win mag, u kombinaciji winchester m70.
Ali vrlo cesto i FAL 7.62x51.Divljac u krdu satjerati u uski prostor, i onda izvrsiti sanitarni odstrel, naravno ovo ne radi jedan lovac vec vise njih.

Za krivolov, mislim da je najveci broj odstrela u africi izvrsen sa 7.62x39, ali bude tu i zamki, trapula, trovanja, i pusaka na crni barut kucne izrade. U keniji nakon zabrane lova, krivolov je odradjivala vojska sa pick up kamiona, i mitraljezima 50bmg.

Tradicionalna lovacka plemena, sve love sa zatrovanim strelicama. Nama, sportskim i etickim lovcima, korisiti otrov bilo bi nezamislivo.
Realno govoreci, koristi se ono, prema pravilima grupe u koju pripadas.

Da li smo lovci, i eticki odgojeni, ili nismo? Ili smo egzibicionisti?
Ja potpisujem od 375 na gore.
Gente Balcanico!

Offline trapavi

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Odg: NAJTROFEJNIJI LOVAC NA SVIJETU !!!
« Odgovori #146 u: 16. 04. 2021. 13:42:37 »
Ma naravno da je ispravno upotreba kalibara kojisu danas propisani i  u upotrebi . Ona vremena su nestala i ne treba tu trošit riječi.

Offline roger

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Odg: NAJTROFEJNIJI LOVAC NA SVIJETU !!!
« Odgovori #147 u: 16. 04. 2021. 13:48:37 »
Ma naravno da je ispravno upotreba kalibara kojisu danas propisani i  u upotrebi . Ona vremena su nestala i ne treba tu trošit riječi.

Da, vremena se mijenjaju.
Gente Balcanico!

Offline zhrvoje

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Odg: NAJTROFEJNIJI LOVAC NA SVIJETU !!!
« Odgovori #148 u: 16. 04. 2021. 15:42:36 »
Pravila su tu da se postuju o tome nema govora.
Mnogi ce reci da je 375 slabasan za slona.
Tako ce i kod nas reci da je npr 6.5x55 slab za ds i jelena.
Nas je izbor s cim cemo loviti dokle god smo unutar zakona.
Mnogi su ph vodici rekli da im je drazi klijent sa slabijim kalibrom koji je siguran i upoznat sa puskom, nego klijent sa vecim kalibrom koji je nesiguran i boji se pucnja.
Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnDcMjnFpvRMCtlVHqFqUVQ

Offline Kunopas

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Odg: NAJTROFEJNIJI LOVAC NA SVIJETU !!!
« Odgovori #149 u: 08. 05. 2021. 21:55:14 »
Roger stvarno imas informacije svaka cast  d1
Imam biblioteku. Sva imena koja Sam spomenuo, imam njihove knjige i memoare. Plus nesto knjiga o lovnom menagementu u africi, problematici slona na africkom kontinentu, , I modernim africkom krivolovu u suzbijanju istog. Bio par puta na skromnom safariju, pricao sa lokalcima.

Puno hvala na preglednim osvrtima.

Ako ne zahtijeva preveliki trud, bilo bi lijepo i korisno da napišeš naslove knjiga i memoara, odnosno ostale spomenute literature o afričkom lovu.